Fluffy?

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Azdgari"][quote]Fluffy not being Kopa in canon is a fact of what is[/quote]
In your most educated and well formulated opinion, yes. Until you have written proof from the creators that that cub is not Kopa-[/quote]

I dont' see how a written word online even on official site could be more reliable proof than what the creators say out loud on a commentary track officcially attached to the legal, profit release of the film?

And it would be just my educated and well formulated opinion, if its creators hadn't refered to the cub in any way. But as it is, they've confirmed that it is a cub with no name and no gender.

Let me make it very simple:

Does the film state the cub's name is Kopa? No.
Does the film state the cub's gender is male? No.
Was Kopa written by any of the people listed as the film's creators? No.
Was Kopa published after the film came out? Yes.
Was the commentary track by the film makers published after Kopa came out? Yes.
Do the creators on their commentary track state it's Kopa or even male? No. But they do call it "Fluffy" and give it no gender.

Results in: Fluffy is not Kopa, in fact and not just in my opinion.
As in it cannot be both, genderless Fluffy and a boy named Kopa in one vision. Fluffy with no gender is the official canon vision, and Kopa boy is the fan made identity vision based on that official canon vision.

[Jiirani]

[quote="BlackTerriermon"]I think that Chaka (Kiara's brother that was cut from the movie) was meant to be the cub at the end of TLK, and Kiara's older brother, but then they cut him out, so Kiara is really the cub at the end of TLK, so I think Kiara is "Fluffy", but Chaka was another version of "Fluffy" (I'm not shooting anyone else's opinions or theories down, I was just posting my opinion. ^^)

[quote="Arani"](Who would name their child fluffy?) 0_o...[/quote]
I would. XD[/quote]

Pff, I'd call my child Muffinman if i could lol.

But yeah, I love that thougt, Chaka and Shani and Kiara could all be siblings to me lol x3 Even though Shani and Kiara were the same character, just different name choices P:

Anyway, I really don't see us getting anywhere with this. No matter the facts you spit out SBS people will deny them. You know, I think it would be more prudent if someone actually stated that 'Fluffy' wasn't Kopa at all, because the simple fact that Disney never mentioned him is just that, they never mentioned him. How are we meant to know it's definatly not Kopa if they never said it wasn't? I mean, they could all behind the scenes refer to him as Kopa, where's your proof that they don't or didn't?

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Jiirani"]How are we meant to know it's definatly not Kopa if they never said it wasn't? I mean, they could all behind the scenes refer to him as Kopa, where's your proof that they don't or didn't?[/quote]

That's just silly. Because we can not know what they think to themselves, it's the official, publicly stated, literal facts that form the official canon. What the film and the creators DO say publicly. And they said it's Fluffy with no gender.

I repeat: the canon identity would be validly suspectable only if the creators didn't publicly in an official situation, talk about the matter at all. But they did. And they key words were 'publicly' and 'official situation'. Which is also why it would be silly to doubt that they wouldn't say what they mean.

Especially in this case. As the confirmation on the cub being Fluffy with no gender, was made in 1995 before anyone else but Kopa existed in the official TLK universe. As in saying it's Kopa wouldn't have done any harm. It wouldn't have contradicted anything. And if they didn't know about Kopa, it only proves more that they didn't care about book universe chaaracyers whatsoever.

So, can you think of any other reason why they would not mention him apart from that they just didn't mean him to be the cub at the end?

[Jiirani]

To be honest, I don't really care whether it's him at the end or not because it doesn't affect me in any shape nor form xD

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Jiirani"]To be honest, I don't really care whether it's him at the end or not because it doesn't affect me in any shape nor form xD[/quote]

That's not what I asked.

In the light of what I just pointed out, can you think of any other reason for not mentioning Kopa, than that they just didn't mean the cub to be Kopa? You don't have to answer this, of course and I respect if you choose not to (again). It's just that I'm genuinely interested. I love debating.

[Jiirani]

Maybe they just didn't want anyone to think they had anything to do with his creation ? x3

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Jiirani"]Maybe they just didn't want anyone to think they had anything to do with his creation ? x3[/quote]

That kind of situation would be downright hatred of Kopa instead of just not caring. Not to mention that if that was the case, they would've said so on the commentary track to make sure no one thinks so. Because the current problem IS that people think they have everything to do with Kopa even though they don't have anything to do with him apart from creating Fluffy.

[Jiirani]

[quote="SuperBabySimba"] Because the current problem IS that people think they have everything to do with Kopa even though they don't have anything to do with him apart from creating Fluffy.[/quote]

Well, who's to say they don't have anything to do with Kopa? I mean the people who created the books might have come to Disney to ask questions or something, and maybe even got some info on what the TLK creators thought Simba's son would look like, I mean, it's possible isn't it? But since they didn't write the books they just didn't mention Kopa, you know?

[SuperBabySimba]

[quote="Jiirani"][quote="SuperBabySimba"] Because the current problem IS that people think they have everything to do with Kopa even though they don't have anything to do with him apart from creating Fluffy.[/quote]

Well, who's to say they don't have anything to do with Kopa? I mean the people who created the books might have come to Disney to ask questions or something, and maybe even got some info on what the TLK creators thought Simba's son would look like, I mean, it's possible isn't it? But since they didn't write the books they just didn't mention Kopa, you know?[/quote]

But why would they bother stating a gender to a profit-to-be-book's writer for use but not to the viewer of the film even though the books already were published? If they'd decided the gender to the degree that they'd let it out on a profit book series, it would've been final. So no, I don't think they had anything to do with the cub being male in the book apart from making it seemingly look like a male in the film.

But if that still was the case, the cub all the more certainly isn't meant to be Kopa or even male in the film. As again I point at the keywords 'publicly' and 'official situation' that is the commentary track of the film. It wouldn't matter who wrote the character - if they wanted the cub at the end to be male, or Kopa who was at the time in Disney's copyrights, they would've said so.

[Jiirani]

I guess your right x3 I don't really believe that Disney did have anything to do with Kopa, I wonder if it would be possible to create our on TLK story, and if Disney would publish that o3o Anyway, yeah, I agree with you, i'm not exactly sure what else there is to say other than Kopa, kiara and Fluffy in the end are all different characters, because like you said before Kiara hadn't been created when Fluffy was x3 Lol, Fluffy x3