David Oyelowo to voice Scar in The Lion Guard

[Kallo]

Don't think it was as much shock that Kovu would ask such a question, but that she herself didn't know because she had never thought about it. It's more of a sad realisation and wonderment on her part.

We don't know how the afterlife in TLK works, and probably never will. There might not even be a "lion-heaven" and "lion-hell". All the kings could end up in the same "place" as similar deity-like beings, but they just manifest themselves differently, depending on their personalities/intentions. "The Great Kings of the Past" doesn't necessarily refer to the kings doing a great job as leaders, but simply that they were notable rulers (or just rulers in general). I always did count Scar as being a Great King of the Past, despite his actions.

[Squeely]

^Especially since "great" doesn't necessarily mean good. It can mean "big" - as in, influential, important. Scar was a bad king but was definitely influential.

[TheLionPrince]

Oyelowo sounds an interesting choice, and is definitely one of Hollywood's rising actors from the performances I've seen of him in Selma and The Butler. His voice doesn't sound as raspy as Jeremy Irons, but my interest in season 2 has shot up tremendously.

[Aelwen]

[quote]We know that part of the training Zira subjected Kovu to included a lot of brainwashing, in an effort to turn him evil.[/quote]
All that brainwashing was for nothing as when Kiara showed him some fun Kovu immediately became good. He has never been truly evil.

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Kallo"]Don't think it was as much shock that Kovu would ask such a question, but that she herself didn't know because she had never thought about it. It's more of a sad realisation and wonderment on her part.

We don't know how the afterlife in TLK works, and probably never will. There might not even be a "lion-heaven" and "lion-hell". All the kings could end up in the same "place" as similar deity-like beings, but they just manifest themselves differently, depending on their personalities/intentions. "The Great Kings of the Past" doesn't necessarily refer to the kings doing a great job as leaders, but simply that they were notable rulers (or just rulers in general). I always did count Scar as being a Great King of the Past, despite his actions.[/quote]

[quote="Squeely"]^Especially since "great" doesn't necessarily mean good. It can mean "big" - as in, influential, important. Scar was a bad king but was definitely influential.[/quote]

I have to politely disagree with you both on this. I do not consider someone evil (I'll avoid any real life examples) great. As for The Lion King, Mufasa told Simba that The Great Kings would always be there to guide him. I would not want guidance from someone evil. I also doubt that The Great Kings who are supposedly very wise would want to have someone that could give bad guidance among them.

[quote="Aelwen"]All that brainwashing was for nothing as when Kiara showed him some fun Kovu immediately became good. He has never been truly evil.[/quote]

True, Kovu's heart was always good at it's core, but without Kiara's influence Kovu's goodness would not have had the chance to emerge. He was preparing to attack Simba just before Kiara showed up for her first hunting lesson. Had Kiara not arrived when she did, Kovu would have attacked Simba with the intent to kill and with the element of surprise he might have been successful. Now if Kovu did murder Simba doing so would have likely killed the goodness in his heart. Thereby leaving him truly evil.

[Kallo]

[quote]I have to politely disagree with you both on this. I do not consider someone evil (I'll avoid any real life examples) great. As for The Lion King, Mufasa told Simba that The Great Kings would always be there to guide him. I would not want guidance from someone evil. I also doubt that The Great Kings who are supposedly very wise would want to have someone that could give bad guidance among them.[/quote]

Plenty of past leaders IRL who've conquered and pillaged other nations, as well as killed thousands upon thousands of innocent people, are still considered "great". You'd be hard-pressed to find one leader in this world's history who hasn't done plenty of "evil" things. "Great" is nothing more than a way to express that they had great power & influence, or it's just a way to show respect for past leaders/people and the past/history in general.

In TLK, what's to say a past king can't guide you on the wrong path, if they so wish? Just because someone is wise, doesn't mean they can't use that wisdom for bad things.

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Kallo"]Plenty of past leaders IRL who've conquered and pillaged other nations, as well as killed thousands upon thousands of innocent people, are still considered "great". You'd be hard-pressed to find one leader in this world's history who hasn't done plenty of "evil" things. "Great" is nothing more than a way to express that they had great power & influence, or it's just a way to show respect for past leaders/people and the past/history in general.[/quote]

I'd be more inclined to think that any historical figure that is remembered only for the evil they did rather than any good that they accomplished, would not be remembered as they themselves being great. However they would be remembered for having caused great evil. In that context great dose not mean good but it is also not being applied to a person. In this case it is being applied to a person's deed's

[quote="Kallo"]In TLK, what's to say a past king can't guide you on the wrong path, if they so wish? Just because someone is wise, doesn't mean they can't use that wisdom for bad things.[/quote]

Yes in theory that could happen but if one Great King were to guide someone to evil or misfortune. That would tarnish the legacy of all The Great Kings of the Past and in turn cause The Pride to loose faith in them as a whole. Therefore for that reason why would The Great Kings want someone Evil and untrustworthy among them?

[Hatari05]

[quote="SimbasGuard"][quote="Kallo"]Plenty of past leaders IRL who've conquered and pillaged other nations, as well as killed thousands upon thousands of innocent people, are still considered "great". You'd be hard-pressed to find one leader in this world's history who hasn't done plenty of "evil" things. "Great" is nothing more than a way to express that they had great power & influence, or it's just a way to show respect for past leaders/people and the past/history in general.[/quote]

I'd be more inclined to think thank any historical figure that is remembered only for the evil they did rather than any good that they accomplished, would not be remembered as they themselves being great. However they would be remembers for having caused great evil. In that context great dose not mean good but it is also not being applied to a person. In this case it is being applied to a person's deed's

[quote="Kallo"]In TLK, what's to say a past king can't guide you on the wrong path, if they so wish? Just because someone is wise, doesn't mean they can't use that wisdom for bad things.[/quote]

Yes in theory that could happen but if one Great King were to guide someone to evil or misfortune. That would tarnish the legacy of all The Great Kings of the Past and in turn cause The Pride to loose faith in them as a whole. Therefore for that reason why would The Great Kings want someone Evil and untrustworthy among them?[/quote]

I'm not sure, Harry Potter said it pretty well he who possessed that wand did great things terrible but great. Scar did terrible things but grand. Scar changed the course of Pride Land history and Simba's life. No one is going to forget him for a very long time if ever. It is likely across the generations that Scar will be more remembered than Simba or Mufasa because of what he did. The evil beings often are never forgotten because of the atrocities they committed. We think of them in disgust, we pay close attention to others praying they don't show the same signs. We're still afraid of what they did long after they're dead.

That's greatness it's not greatness in the sense of being benevolent and beloved but it's hard to argue that they didn't accomplish grand things. Scar did great things, appalling and terrible beyond all measures but still great.

[simbathehedgehog]

Ah yes this should be exciting

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Hatari05"]I'm not sure, Harry Potter said it pretty well he who possessed that wand did great things terrible but great. Scar did terrible things but grand. Scar changed the course of Pride Land history and Simba's life. No one is going to forget him for a very long time if ever. It is likely across the generations that Scar will be more remembered than Simba or Mufasa because of what he did. The evil beings often are never forgotten because of the atrocities they committed. We think of them in disgust, we pay close attention to others praying they don't show the same signs. We're still afraid of what they did long after they're dead.

That's greatness it's not greatness in the sense of being benevolent and beloved but it's hard to argue that they didn't accomplish grand things. Scar did great things, appalling and terrible beyond all measures but still great.[/quote]

Once again that falls under great evil. An individual that is responsible for great evil, does leave an indelible mark on history. However the place they make for themselves in history is not that of a great individual, but rather an infamous one.

Given how The Great Kings of the Past are viewed by The Pridelanders I think it is very unlikely that anyone considers Scar to be one of The Great Kings of the Past. Scar has become a cautionary tale, while he will be remembered by everyone that lives in The Pride Lands. Scar will not live on in greatness, he will live on in infamy.