Do you think Mufasa and Scar ever found Udugu?

[Simba_Lion]

[quote="Kallo"]It would be an interesting twist if it was revealed that their parents actually made the decision to never take Mufasa and Scar on the search for Udugu. Perhaps they treated their sons unequally and actually didn't want Mufasa to become close to Scar, because they didn't much care for Scar and wanted Mufasa to become a very regal king and separate himself from his brother as much as possible. That would explain both Mufasa's regality as well as Scar's resentment.[/quote]

Interesting idea, indeed. But as SimbasGuard said, I wouldn't be fan of it either. But who knows.
Anyway, yeah, it'd be awesome if they had a movie about Scar and Mufasa's cubhood.

According to Six New Adevntures - Tales of two Brothers, Scar got his scar from buffalos. I like the books very much but in my opinion, an injury from a buffalo should be more serious. I saw the video with Rob, it's a possible way too. But my favourite version of it can be read in the fan-comic of Missing Pieces.

[Kallo]

[quote]In my mind it gives Scar an excuse for the evil he did. I feel that weakens him as a character and especially as a villain.[/quote]

Hm, there'll never be excuses for what Scar did. You can't excuse such actions. But it would give him a reason and a background story/motivation. Villains are always more interesting when they have a good motivation behind their actions. Scar is one of my favourite villains ever, maybe my favourite, but honestly... background-story wise, there's barely anything to him. He's just the "bad guy" in the original movie, and one could argue he's just throwing a big temper tantrum (that went too far) because he didn't get to be the king. Although I don't personally like Zira as much as a villain, her motivations are far better and it just makes her an even more sinister and interesting character when you delve into it. I think Scar needs/deserves that, too. And I think it's finally time to explain what exactly happened to him in his childhood, to cause him to resort to such extreme measures. Even more so now that we know he even tried to kill Mufasa BEFORE, but Mufasa forgave him, which must've just strained their relationship even more. This series is our chance to get that explanation. I wouldn't want them to waste that opportunity. I can't think of any other reason that would be bad enough, than it being bad parenting and family relations as a cub. You could even take it a step further and, as I mentioned, make it ACTUALLY their parents fault, in a scenario where their parents (or at least one of them) never liked Scar to begin with, but were just focused on Mufasa. It could give a good lesson for Kion and Simba, too, that people you look up to (in Simba's case his grandparents, in Kion's his great grandparents) aren't always perfect and necessarily worth looking up to, and can make mistakes/do bad things as well.

[SimbasGuard]

Well O.K. maybe excuse is the wrong word, but to go the route of having (these are the only names we have for them at the moment) Ahadi and/or Uru intentionally mistreat and neglect Scar. It makes one of both of them very stupid, if they adore Mufasa so much then than doing wrong by the son is supposed to have your favored son's back. Only places the favored son in danger. The other hang up here is if this does not excuse Scar's actions, it kind of makes him an innocent victim. If Scar was pushed toward his evil path, I think takes a lot of his evil away. Scar is an awesome Villain (Disney's best in my opinion). Part of why he is so great is because he is so very evil. If said evil was not his choice it lessens his impact as a villain. While acting out of jealousy and a lust for power is not the most original backstory ever. It is a very believable reason for an evil individual to act on and Scar pulls it off like no other. There in lies his greatness as a villain.

However I could see your idea working from Scar's point of view. I can easily see that Scar would believe (or at least come to believe) that his parents rejected him and gave all their love to Mufasa. Jealousy can twist an evil mind into believing what they need to, in order to feel justified in there actions.

Although if they actually went this route. Scar needs to narrate his version of his cubhood, but the viewers need to be shown what actually happened. I'm not saying that Ahadi And Uru need to be portrayed as perfect, but if you try to show that they had faults. You must not vilify them, because if you do that you make Scar less of a villain in the process.

[Kallo]

[quote]Well O.K. maybe excuse is the wrong word, but to go the route of having (these are the only names we have for them at the moment) Ahadi and/or Uru intentionally mistreat and neglect Scar. It makes one of both of them very stupid, if they adore Mufasa so much then than doing wrong by the son is supposed to have your favored son's back. Only places the favored son in danger.[/quote]

I don't think it makes them out to be stupid. It's just a very realistic mistake you could build a classic emotional story on. Just like Simba made paternal mistakes with Kiara, that would be their mistake. You don't necessarily have to have them absolutely HATE Scar, but some type of neglectance would be in order. I think the strongest way to do this would be to show Scar have a very strong connection with his mother, but have their father be so focused on making Mufasa the next great king, that he completely neglects Scar (maybe because he, in turn, is trying to follow the footsteps of his own father too closely. It would kinda bring the circle to a close, because Simba did the same mistake in TLK2, but he learned it was the wrong way to go. That'd be a very cool connection; having Simba be put in the same situation that started the whole mess, but being wise enough to end it). Maybe the neglectance would be to the point when Scar becomes the leader of the Lion Guard, he'll still see it only as a stamp of "second best". This would explain Scar's extreme jealousy towards Mufasa very well. Come to think of it, this could also make for a great story with Kion having to learn the lesson that being the second-born and the leader of the Lion Guard DOESN'T mean he's second best to Kiara.

[quote]The other hang up here is if this does not excuse Scar's actions, it kind of makes him an innocent victim. If Scar was pushed toward his evil path, I think takes a lot of his evil away. Scar is an awesome Villain (Disney's best in my opinion). Part of why he is so great is because he is so very evil. If said evil was not his choice it lessens his impact as a villain. While acting out of jealousy and a lust for power is not the most original backstory ever. It is a very believable reason for an evil individual to act on and Scar pulls it off like no other. There in lies his greatness as a villain.[/quote]

It doesn't make Scar innocent, because he still did something horrible. Scar chose to do what he did, and that's a decision you can only make yourself. Sure, it would explain WHY he did it, but I think that'd be important. And it wouldn't be the same as making him innocent. He could've chosen to deal with his trauma and anger in a different way, by becoming even closer with his brother, or by choosing to do his best as the leader of the Guard. No backstory can make you innocent after you kill your own brother and try to kill your own nephew. Jealousy and lust for power is all well and good. It's a very classic villain backstory, but we need to know WHERE that jealousy and lust for power came from. There needs to be a deeper hurt there for him to go THAT far. Otherwise it's simply "The plot demands me to be jealous just for the sake of jealousy, so I can be the bad guy of the movie". It's just a case of "I'm evil". The biggest mistake The Lion Guard has made is literally calling Scar an "evil lion" on multiple occasions, and been making him such an obviously clear villain/bad guy. Even the other BAD GUYS call him "evil", even though they're supposed to believe in their own cause. That ruins an otherwise good villain, and makes him very cartoonish. At least with the original movie, you could build your own headcanon about what happened with Scar. With The Lion Guard, it's just a case of "he's an evil lion". That, if anything, weakens him and is why we desperately need the show to give him a good backstory.

[quote]Although if they actually went this route. Scar needs to narrate his version of his cubhood, but the viewers need to be shown what actually happened. I'm not saying that Ahadi And Uru need to be portrayed as perfect, but if you try to show that they had faults. You must not vilify them, because if you do that you make Scar less of a villain in the process.[/quote]

Again, I don't think giving Scar a cause-and-effect backstory makes him any less a villain. It'd just make him greater as a written character. I can't see at what point doing what Scar did becomes okay or less evil, no matter what backstory you give him. And I don't think Scar needs to narrate it. I think it'd be best if Mufasa told the story to both Kion and Simba. He could, in the most unbiased view possible, explain the story so that everybody would be shown their good and bad sides. It would show Mufasa's compassion and understanding of the situation, by explaining that he still loved/loves Scar very dearly. But he could also explain their parents' good side. Mufasa was a very loved and wise leader of the Pride Lands. His wisdom would be a sign that despite the parents making some poor decisions, their efforts on Mufasa didn't go to waste either. Y'know, they did raise a great king which was a good thing, but it came at the price of their other son, which would be their flaw.

[SimbasGuard]

Remind me to give you A Pride Point for your excellent counter argument that I can not repudiate

I just have a hard time saying blame the parents, but I'm still holding the son accountable I have never been able to see how the two viewpoints can coexist.

Now for the only part of what you had to say that I can offer a counter point on. I don't think Kion feels inferior to Kiara, despite their sibling rivalry, he doesn't harbor any bitterness towards Kiara. In truth he genuinely loves her. Yes he also wants his Father's approval (Return of the Roar, Cam't wait to Be Queen). Simba is careful not to neglect Kion in any way. That, along with Kion's fear of becoming like Scar, keeps Kion out of danger on that front.

[Kallo]

[quote]Now for the only part of what you had to say that I can offer a counter point on. I don't think Kion feels inferior to Kiara, despite their sibling rivalry, he doesn't harbor any bitterness towards Kiara. In truth he genuinely loves her. Yes he also wants his Father's approval (Return of the Roar, Cam't wait to Be Queen). Simba is careful not to neglect Kion in any way. That, along with Kion's fear of becoming like Scar, keeps Kion out of danger on that front.[/quote]

True. But it's a concept that could be introduced to the show very easily, if an episode requires it. Kion and Kiara could get in a fight and Kion would end up showing slight jealousy towards Kiara for a moment. Simba notices this, and knowing what happened between his father and uncle, he would take Kion out to discuss the matter with him, eventually resulting in Mufasa appearing and telling them the story of him and Scar.

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Kallo"]True. But it's a concept that could be introduced to the show very easily, if an episode requires it. Kion and Kiara could get in a fight and Kion would end up showing slight jealousy towards Kiara for a moment. Simba notices this, and knowing what happened between his father and uncle, he would take Kion out to discuss the matter with him, eventually resulting in Mufasa appearing and telling them the story of him and Scar.[/quote]

That actually makes perfect sense, considering that it is very likely that Simba would have such a deep seeded fear just below his surface that any type of jealousy and/or resentment could develop between Kiara and Kion. If the situation were handled in the way you suggest, Simba would not look as if he is favoring Kiara over Kion, but instead he would come across as a loving father. Who is trying to protect both of his cubs. This story would not inhibit Kion's growth as a character either.

[Elton John]

The more I think about it, does Scar really need a backstory beyond what has been given to us?

Any official canon explanation is bound to piss off longtime fans (it seems that everybody has their own theory of why Scar became evul, or goes by the six new adventures), and possibly create plotholes with already established canon.

and not everything needs to be explained or spoonfed to an audience.

[Kallo]

Scar has always been a great villain, because the moment he appears on screen, he just appears cool and makes an impression on you. He's great because of his charisma, design, voice, sly personality and just his overall presence. All good things, but background story and motive wise, he's lacking. Just like every Disney villain basically (I think Zira is one of the very few exceptions). With Disney villains, it's always about being power-hungry, money-hungry or just being plain crazy and evil for the sake of it. But they never have any explanation about what led them to that mindset. And that's always the best part about characters, especially villains. Think about Megara from Disney's Hercules. She's not a villain, sure, but she could've very easily just been this female character who is first working for the bad guy, and then falls in love with the hero. But instead, they gave her a proper motive as to why she works for the bad guy and feels the way she does. That one little 10 second moment in the movie made her a hundred times more interesting character. Or think about Darth Vader. Just like Scar, he's a villain who immediately makes an impression on you, but without his background story of having used to be good, he'd never have been as legendary a villain as he is now.

I agree that some people might get angry if Scar's history doesn't match their imagination. But they can't start building the series off of the fear that some people might get angry. Then they wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING in the series, as far as connecting it to the original movie goes. I'd just love seeing some kinda official background story on the character, after 20+ years of waiting, even if it doesn't match my hopes. I, myself, might not even count it as a canon explanation afterwards, as far as the movies, but I wouldn't wanna waste the opportunity to do the story on screen. This might be the only chance we'll ever get.

And I definitely agree the audience doesn't need to be spoonfed or explained everything. But giving the villain a backstory isn't spoonfeeding or explaing something unnecessary. It's just simply good writing. To answer your question about whether Scar NEEDS a background story, then as far as this series goes, I'd definitely say yes. Him not having a proper motive in the original movie weakens him somewhat, but yeah, you can argue he doesn't need one. With The Lion Guard, though, they've not exactly been doing a great job with his character; he's just being evil and menacing and that's it. To redeem him in the series at this point, we definitely need a good background story for him.

[Elton John]

I have a feeling that he will get a bigger backstory in the remake, assuming the movie is 2 hours or longer.

I suppose a better backstory in the lion guard, if written well enough, wouldn’t be a bad thing.