Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby tlkfan1 » August 5th, 2015, 8:43 pm

As everyone else said its Kiara, Kopa is not canon

and if you compare the screenshots the cub looks the same other than diffrences in the animation style
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby SlayerOfLight » August 5th, 2015, 8:56 pm

@KiovuLove Well you said that Fluffy wasn't Kiara, which is wrong because as I said, Fluffy's identity was later revealed to be Kiara in the second movie's trailer, but I already corrected you on that. So you know what, wether you or anyone else accept Kopa being non-canon or not, I don't really care anymore. This kind of discussions have been going on here on this forum for years already, and I'm growing a bit tired of it tbh. And have fun with your fan fictions :)
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Carl » August 5th, 2015, 10:13 pm

KiovuLove wrote:The cub in the first movie, although I know he's known as fluffy at the time, doesn't look like kiara. She's close but there's a difference. "Fluffy" has a dark ring on the outside of his ear like his father did but kiara does not and she didn't for her reveal. [...] Even if it wasn't kopa per say, fluffy isn't kiara.


Actually, the cub at the end of the first movie does look like Kiara, and if you read this post you will be provided with links that account for the apparent difference in appearance and with Disney's official statement about the identity of the cub at the first film, which confirm that it is Kiara.

KiovuLove wrote:Part of being a fan is imagining what happens between things and after the story. I'm not saying he's real. I'm not saying that at all. I like to think that, AS A FAN, because of the ear thing and color changes. I love kiara, I love that they gave the cub at the end of the first movie a cute funny name like fluffy. But as a fan, I can be a fan of fan fiction if that's what you consider the book set. It's not like the set was within copyright reason or anything. They would have gotten in trouble. I can be a fan of both. It fits. IM NOT SAYING IT'S CANON I KNOW IT'S NOT REAL IT'LL NEVER BE REAL I KNOW THAT. But lion king itself isn't real. It's not "based on a true story" or something ridiculous like that which makes it fluid. It can be warped to fans ideas. I like the idea of the book set. I'm a fan of it. I own it. That doesn't mean I'm saying he's canon.

And you are entitled to have whatever you want as the lore of your headcanon/personal fan theories. You have stated you know it isn't canon so there's no reason for people to argue with you about what you like as a fan theory. All of that said, if you come here (to a thread like this one) and mention what you like to think in your fan world, there will be people who will tell you, sometimes harshly, that that's simply not the way things are, because this thread is about what is and isn't canon, and was in fact created because someone genuinely believed/wanted to believe that canonically, Fluffy is Kopa, which, as you have stated and know, simply isn't true. Thus the arguments here have been about the canonity of the situation. As a fan you are entitled to enjoy the franchise however you wish.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby HereWeStand » August 6th, 2015, 12:36 am

IMO it depends on whether you consider sequels part of the official canon or not, which would probably be worthy of a topic of its own. From the original movie cannon it's an unnamed cub nicknamed Fluffy but never given any official name. If you include SP into the canon, it's Kiara. Disney does not consider Kopa to be part of its canon, therefore he cannot be officially considered as the cub at the end of TLK. As for the 'differences' in appearance, I'm not sure if the studios had a sequel in mind when they designed the cub, and the studio in charge of SP simply wanted a different design for Simba's offspring.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby KiovuLove » August 6th, 2015, 1:33 am

They could have just added the ear color to make it not such a difference though. It's just a little detail but since the Lions in the movies typically don't have much detail to them to make them that different besides their stature or features of course. I know they didn't expect to make a sequel but I don't see why she couldn't have had it since that's literally the only obvious difference.

I know it doesn't matter but I asked an unbiased party, my mom, if she thought they were the same characters and she said no lol
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby Carl » August 6th, 2015, 8:20 am

KiovuLove wrote:I know it doesn't matter but I asked an unbiased party, my mom, if she thought they were the same characters and she said no lol

I did the same with my cousin, and he said they are the same characters. :P
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby HereWeStand » August 6th, 2015, 9:39 am

Whether they could have done something to minimize the differences or not is irrelevant though, it's just a creative choice. It doesn't change the fact that it is considered to be Kiara. With that in mind any suggestion to the contrary is simply wishful thinking.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby DGFone » August 7th, 2015, 6:38 am

Honestly, there is no real debate: Since SP is the overruling canon, the cub is Kiara.


But I admit that I myself will not shy away from indulging in what-if scenarios for what would happen if that cub was someone else.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby zerodix » September 2nd, 2015, 12:27 pm

official is Disney confirmed. so Disney says it's Kiara.
fans have various theories:
first cub is Tanabi- before simbas pride came out, fans drew this cub with read hair, kinda like kion nowadays :) he first appeared in a fan fic and got accepted by fans as the son of Simba and Nala
first cub is Kopa- the books are non Disney, and Disney does not confirm anything in these books as canon. too bad, since these books have nice stories and new characters that add up to the movies' story.
first cub is Shaka and/or Shani- while developing simbas pride, these names were revealed to be the twin cubs of Simba and Nala. they got scratched and Disney waved goodbye at them. Only sketches of them are known, no coloured end results.
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Re: Who is Simba and Nalas first born

Postby KionofTheLionGuard » September 15th, 2015, 4:58 am

Pretty much what everyone said here, i would have said. Kiara is their first born, second will be Kion. Besides, if Kopa were canon, then Kiara would have been a Lion Guard instead of Kion, and in general, would just change the story completely in that way.
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