Kovu

[KiovuLove]

Oh okay. I didn't know that

[Elton John]

It's okay I made a lot of mistakes early on as well.

[Carl]

As Johnny Boy didn't point it out, there is an "edit" button at the top right of your post that you can use to make adjustments when need be, rather than posting again.

Anyway, onto the topic of Kovu, here are my thoughts on him:

He was born after Scar's death. A lot of fans believe Zira's ludicrous claims that he was hand-chosen by Scar to take his place as king but honestly, that's just not chronologically possible, and Zira's character puts her as very likely to lie and make things up to suit her needs. Based on Kovu's size when he and Kiara first meet and meet again later on, the development of his mane, and his mental state throughout the movie, Kovu can't be significantly older than Kiara. A month or two, sure, but given the amount of time it would take the land to recover from the drought and for Kiara to be born, Kovu would be a lot bigger than she is if he were born while Scar was alive. He'd be Nuka's age or so. This obviously isn't the case, and therefore, it stands to reason that Kovu cannot have been hand-chosen by Scar. (Unless, as I jokingly suggested once before, Scar returned as a ghost, like Mufasa had, and chose his heir.)

I do believe Kovu is Zira's own cub. Many theories have him adopted from some other lioness (usually kidnapped), but I don't think so. Zira wouldn't see spawn that were not her own as worthy of being Scar's heir. I fully believe that all of her children are biologically hers and not Scar's. Kovu at least is not Scar's, as the movie says so twice. I believe that he was inherently good, despite what some think, because he was eager to befriend Kiara as a cub and an adult. His switching of sides was too quick (even if you go with my theory that there were several days that weren't shown while he was at Pride Rock before the ambush (it just doesn't make sense otherwise)) for him to have been truly intent on killing anyone. The same seems to apply to his sister Vitani, and it's possible that their father was a good-natured lion, and/or that Zira was goodhearted herself before snapping and going totally insane.

Kovu also strikes me as underdeveloped, as do most of the characters introduced in this film. He follows what his mother tells him until he loves Kiara, then he is almost blindly good. They tried to give him depth of character by giving him similarities to Scar, but it was so barely touched on that it didn't really stick. Kovu stands out as his own character, not one nearly as powerful as Scar, and too much of a goody-two shoes to be like him. This is not to say that I dislike Kovu, because I certainly don't! It's simply that they didn't devote enough time to making the character emotionally complex, in my opinion.

I have a lot of gripes with SP in general, but I do love it, all the same.

[KiovuLove]

While a lot of what you said made sense, we don't know how long after the death of scar Kiara was born. With the whole "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" thing, she could have been conceived then which would push the time frame for pregnancy back a little. I mean it's clear that they're about the same age, but Kovu feels he was a part of him and Zira said he was handchosen. While the hand chosen thing could be from crazy Zira's head only, I feel like her followers would have said something or tried to overrule her if she were that crazy.

I do have to wonder who Nuka, Vitani, and Kovu's fathers are though. Like...all the prides are only lionesses. I know how lions in real life work, but to have a father different? Do male lions just kinda pass by just to....you know?

If Zira were so crazy to pick her own heir and pass them off as Scar's, she'd probably pick Kovu over the others due to the fact he may have been stronger and looks kind of like him. With her mentality that Scar is the rightful king, Zira's probably thinking "If Scar were here, he'd totally pick this one" or maybe even a tiny sign from the heavens (like when the fight resolved and the sun came out and Simba was looking up at the sunshine like it was his father) and took it as the picking of an heir.

Theres just a lot of unresolved questions for the fandom in general I guess

[Elton John]

I believe Kiara was concieved during 'can you feel the love tonight'. If this is too risque for this forum let me know, but during the audio commentary for this scene they mention this part being the 'steamiest love scene in a disney movie' and 'making love' is synonymous for... Well, ya know...

It is possible that kovu was born right before the battle for pride rock, and kiara wasn't too far off. As for who kovus dad was, it was originally scar until a higher up at disney noticed that kovu and kiara were cousins. As for who Kovus canonical dad is, I do not know.

[KiovuLove]

Ah so they have noticed the whole incest thing everyone talks about. They probably dont care about Simba and Nala because there's no proof, they dont have the same mothers but you dont know the father of Nala....but you can track Kovu to being family if Scar was his father. Cool. I didnt know they were planning on him being the father. Theres still people who think he is. Those people probably havent seen the movie for awhile but its like...they mention it at least 3 times that hes not the father

[Carl]

[quote="KiovuLove"]While a lot of what you said made sense, we don't know how long after the death of scar Kiara was born. With the whole "Can You Feel The Love Tonight" thing, she could have been conceived then which would push the time frame for pregnancy back a little.[/quote]
She may very well have been conceived then. However.

When Scar dies, the Pride Lands look like this:

And when Kiara is born, they look like this:

It takes months for that much plantlife to grow to that stage of development. It's not possible for a cub as close to Kiara's age as Kovu is to have been born while the land still looked like it does in the first picture. If he was hand chosen by Scar, Kovu would have to be significantly larger than Kiara, because he would have had to been born before she was even conceived, and grown big enough to show more potential than Nuka, or Scar wouldn't have hand chosen him. It's physically impossible for Kovu to have been born before Scar's death and be the age that he is in the film. Besides that, unless you're going by TLKoB (which is semicanon) there is no indication in the first movie that Scar was interested in an heir at all. I doubt he'd want anyone to rule in his wake. What with Zira's role being obscured to a devoted follower as well, and her "psycho fangirl" mentality, I highly doubt Scar would have ever chosen one of her cubs if he did want an heir, Scar needs someone more clever than her genes can pull off, he'd want someone as smart as himself. Kovu wasn't stupid, but he certainly wasn't the genius Scar was. It doesn't make logical sense in any way for Kovu to have truly been hand chosen by Scar.

[quote]I feel like her followers would have said something or tried to overrule her if she were that crazy.[/quote]

What if they don't know? They may have joined her after she left and had the cubs. Nothing says they were with her when she was exiled.

[quote]I do have to wonder who Nuka, Vitani, and Kovu's fathers are though. Like...all the prides are only lionesses. I know how lions in real life work, but to have a father different? Do male lions just kinda pass by just to....you know?[/quote]
Nala has an unknown father. Why can't Zira's cubs? The real father wasn't necessary to the plot and therefore wasn't included. Simple.

[KiovuLove]

Okay I can understand that first part.

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]
What if they don't know? They may have joined her after she left and had the cubs. Nothing says they were with her when she was exiled.[/quote]

I couldve sworn Simba mentioned that it wasnt just Zira who was banished. I mean I could be wrong, but that's what I gathered both times I just watched the second movie this evening ...

[quote="Julie Skywalker"]
Nala has an unknown father. Why can't Zira's cubs? The real father wasn't necessary to the plot and therefore wasn't included. Simple.[/quote]

I'm honestly just curious on where these random male lions come from or disappear to. Its just curiousity. I understand that having extra characters introduced gets in the way of the story (see Sarabi post).

[Carl]

[quote="KiovuLove"]I couldve sworn Simba mentioned that it wasnt just Zira who was banished. I mean I could be wrong, but that's what I gathered both times I just watched the second movie this evening ... [/quote]
They could be banished by association. Yes they are banished, but nothing says that they were banished at the same time as Zira was. Considering that we didn't have a bunch of lionesses helping Scar at the end of the first film, it would be easier to write off one lioness missing the action or going unnoticed than a whole pride of them. It's likely they were rogues who joined up with Zira after she was banished, and when it became known to Simba that they were in cahoots with her, he would have banished them as well.

[quote]I'm honestly just curious on where these random male lions come from or disappear to. Its just curiousity. I understand that having extra characters introduced gets in the way of the story (see Sarabi post).[/quote]
Well, in Zira's case, she most probably was intimate with a rogue male who lived in the vicinity for the sole purpose of trying to create "an heir" for Scar. Who he was didn't matter, as long as he provided her with cubs, so she could have easily found a male if she roamed around enough. I don't doubt that this is the cause of the births of all of her children. I doubt Scar was even Nuka's father (considering dark maned lions are often sterile and my previous points), and it fits with Zira's psychology for her to go looking for a father to produce offspring. Kovu probably had a healthier rogue for his father than Nuka did, judging by their statures and such. This would explain why Zira chose Kovu to follow in Scar's pawprints rather than her firstborn, and would explain the differences in their appearances as well. Zira may have intentionally sought out a male with similar physical traits to Scar, and Kovu just so happened to come out looking very much like him. Judging by Kovu's personality, though, his father probably wasn't a lot like Scar in many other ways. He was probably more healthy mentally as well as physically, going by Kovu's overall character.

In the case of Nala's father, it's possible Sarafina came from a different pride, and was pregnant when she arrived. It's possible she was a solo lioness and was raped. It's possible that she was assaulted by a rogue male while out hunting. There are lots of ways for males to get involved.

[Hatari05]

I think we're trying to apply a little too much realism to a world of talking animals maybe the pride lands grew back in four months yes it's not possible in reality that's true but in reality the clouds don't form into the face of someone either.

Another thing that's never stated is actually how the lions age we just assume they age like lions but nothing actually states that it's never stated how long Simba was gone, meaning that the lions might actually age like humans which for me isn't hard to believe, they talk like us they experience the same emotions and feelings as us they raise happy families and even have their own faith, other than hunting and technology they are humans so it's not a stretch to say they age like us as well.

I doubt Lion Guard will clarify how long after Simba's pride it takes once again leaving us completely uncertain on the characters ages. If this were the case it would mean Kovu was born probably during the last few months of Scars reign Kiara is born about a year later, Mufasa restores the pride lands now that the true king has returned. That would make Kovu about a year or so older.

Anyway I feel this discussion has gotten off topic so I'll get back to it. I like Kovu as a character his struggle with his chosen destiny and his feelings for Kiara was good though not used to it's fullest I also felt James Mardson did a great job voicing him.