What About Nuka?

Re: What About Nuka?

Postby Hatari05 » September 4th, 2016, 12:04 am

Doesn't this same vagueness apply to the first as well, why does scar hate Mufasa so much, why are the hyenas exiled to the elephant graveyard. There's some kind of history there but we don't get it nor do we get anything on how any character but Simba developed. Were the hyenas Scar's actual friends at a time is that why they took his betrayal so hard or were they just sick of his arrogance and false lies. Did the hyenas kill Scar because he was a genuine friend who betrayed them or because he didn't live up to his end of the bargain. Either one of those completely changes the meaning of his death scene.

The first movie was very vague, Nuka as underdeveloped as he was is still far more fleshed out than anyone but Simba and maybe Scar in the first movie. This is a double standard simba's pride doesn't give us answers entirely but there's quite there actually. The first movie doesn't explain anything either we know nothing of the why of almost anything and many relationships are very vague in what we know. While having few direct answers we know a lot more there's no reason to think Nuka isn't Zira's son, if he's scar maybe but it's not important nuka's concern isn't Scar's legacy it's getting his mother's approval.

Who his father is doesn't matter anymore than who Nala's father is (which I might add is another thing from the first movie we don't know) his father isn't important and clearly doesn't matter to him, he wants to prove himself to his mother and gain her love and approval. While there could be more there doesn't need to be his motive is very clear his heritage doesn't matter that's not what is driving him, so him being Scar's son is irrelevant to the matter at hand, Kovu stole his mother's love he wants it back it back.

Note I am not dissing the original no way, but it's unfair to dock Simba's Pride for not explaining a lot when the first movie did the same.
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby Rollo » September 4th, 2016, 11:59 am

Hatari05 wrote:Doesn't this same vagueness apply to the first as well, why does scar hate Mufasa so much, why are the hyenas exiled to the elephant graveyard. There's some kind of history there but we don't get it nor do we get anything on how any character but Simba developed. Were the hyenas Scar's actual friends at a time is that why they took his betrayal so hard or were they just sick of his arrogance and false lies. Did the hyenas kill Scar because he was a genuine friend who betrayed them or because he didn't live up to his end of the bargain. Either one of those completely changes the meaning of his death scene.

The first movie was very vague, Nuka as underdeveloped as he was is still far more fleshed out than anyone but Simba and maybe Scar in the first movie. This is a double standard simba's pride doesn't give us answers entirely but there's quite there actually. The first movie doesn't explain anything either we know nothing of the why of almost anything and many relationships are very vague in what we know. While having few direct answers we know a lot more there's no reason to think Nuka isn't Zira's son, if he's scar maybe but it's not important nuka's concern isn't Scar's legacy it's getting his mother's approval.

Who his father is doesn't matter anymore than who Nala's father is (which I might add is another thing from the first movie we don't know) his father isn't important and clearly doesn't matter to him, he wants to prove himself to his mother and gain her love and approval. While there could be more there doesn't need to be his motive is very clear his heritage doesn't matter that's not what is driving him, so him being Scar's son is irrelevant to the matter at hand, Kovu stole his mother's love he wants it back it back.

Note I am not dissing the original no way, but it's unfair to dock Simba's Pride for not explaining a lot when the first movie did the same.


Well, you're wrong about a couple of things there. "Why does Scar hate Mufasa so much?" As much as we'd love to delve deep into that relationship, the simple answer is that Scar's bitter about not being king. That's his entire character. He's angry at being the younger sibling who is then pushed even further back when Simba is born. That's made very clear. I'm not entirely sure if that would warrant killing your brother and nephew, but he's a villain. His entire character trope is based around being bad.

(If you consider the musical canon, there's also a line hinting that he was neglected as a cub. That would've obviously fuelled some of his hatred for his brother who received all the attention when he didn't.)

The vagueness in the first movie never affected the movie's quality, but it certainly does for Simba's Pride. I think the biggest problem is Zira. While we're fully aware of why Scar wanted to kill Mufasa and Simba, we have very little idea about why Zira is so obsessed with carrying on Scar's legacy--again, because the relationship between them is so obscure and we're never even given a little hint. They could've easily added in a line that explained where Zira and the other lionesses were during the first movie or how they came to be or SOMETHING like that. We get that in the first movie with Scar. We get it during his first scene: "you see I, I shall never be king." We understand immediately why he's bitter but this never happens with Zira and her role as a villain is weakened because of it.

For example--even if they had some sort of backstory scene where they explained Zira's relationship with Scar, whether they were mates or she was in love with him and he rejected her; if they showed that, I would immediately feel more sympathy with Zira because she's fighting for her mate who she would perceive as being wrongly killed by Simba. But we don't get that. I think the creators of the first movie were too hesitant in their writing. If you want to make her Scar's mate, then do so. Don't cloud it for the sake of having a mystery that ultimately complicates things rather than making them interesting.

I think saying Nuka is as fleshed out as Simba and Scar is a bit of an exaggeration lol. Considering we got an entire movie fleshing out Simba's character...we didn't get that with Nuka. He's still far more interesting than Kovu and Kiara, but he's nowhere near as complex as Simba. And that's fine. He's a secondary character in a direct to video sequel, he doesn't really need to be complex. He's allowed to just be what he is without fans trying to make him more than that.

Again, this could be just be a matter of opinion, and I know it may be hard to hear, but many people do not think Simba's Pride is a good sequel to The Lion King. I'm one of them. I think it's an okay movie, and it's definitely watchable, but I'm very embarrassed to call it a sequel to TLK, almost as much as I'm embarrassed to call the third movie a sequel to TLK. Sorry!
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby Hatari05 » September 5th, 2016, 5:16 am

Naturally it's your opinion but I never said Nuka matched Simba I said he was more fleshed out than most of the cast. Zira had a line that made it very clear what she wanted. Personally I don't think eithers relationship to scar was vague especially Zira. There's a reason literally every Zira fan fic makes her his mate, it's pretty clear. Her fanatical devotion, raising his heir, knowing his dying wish. She was his mate its not even vague why on Earth would she have his heir if she wasn't?

Why would Nuka be so bitter about Kovu and say Scar wasn't even his father what does that even matter to him. Saying scar wasn't even Kovu's father and I should've been the chosen one is a pretty clear sign he's Scar's son. Why would he think Kovu wasn't entitled because scar wasn't his father? It's not vague everything points to exactly what everyone thinks, the only thing missing is them outright saying it but I really don't feel they need to, it's pretty clear I am amazed that it's not in their character bios just because it isn't verbally stated. Every single action the characters take points to it. A line or two wouldn't hurt but it's not necessary to confirm it, Nuka and especially Zira's actions don't make sense if they weren't family.

As for the question in the actual forum Nuka was spectacularly incompetent he was a bumbling oaf, he was clumsy and poorly built, in general weak. Scar making him his heir makes no sense.
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby Squeely » November 18th, 2016, 10:27 am

With the recent "Lions of the Outlands" episode of TLG painting the Outsiders as nomads, and Rafiki referring to the cubs as merely "Zira's family" while talking about both Zira and Scar, I don't think Nuka is Scar's son. Much as I did want it to be true.
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby ScarXZira10889 » December 5th, 2016, 9:33 pm

So? It doesn't really confirm that he isn't his son. Yes, Rafiki does say "Zira's family" but he could be referring it to Zira,Kovu,Nuka and Vitani. Also, I think that it confirms that they are all Zira's kids. Zira also says that "Scar and I were close. Very close." Meaning that they still could have mated at some point and there has to be an explanation as to why Nuka is an adolescent lion.
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby Squeely » January 21st, 2017, 2:51 am

Nuka is an adolescent because he was born some time before Kovu and Vitani were. That doesn't mean he was fathered by Scar. The Outsiders living a nomadic lifestyle presumably means they meet plenty of rogue males, any of whom could be Nuka's father.
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby Alexterri1 » January 22nd, 2017, 3:20 pm

My interpretation of Nuka's character is that he was Zira and Scar's actual son, but Scar didn't want him to be his heir for some reason. It would explain why Nuka is so jealous of Kovu, who I think is Zira's son but not Scar's, and why Nuka feels that he is the true heir rather then Kovu.

But I haven't come up with a lot of theories about Nuka because I hate him. I prefer thinking up theories for characters I like
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby ScarXZira10889 » August 13th, 2017, 11:38 am

@Squeely Okay, I respect your opinion. :) But, in my opinion, I doubt there would be any rouges about since Nuka was born during Scar's reign, and I don't think there would be any rouges in the pridelands or the outlands as there would be barely any food or water and, that's where everyone in the pridelands starts to starve. Like Sarabi said that the "herds have moved on". I personally think that Zira either stole Kovu and Vitani or, she had them with a rouge that was far away from the pridelands and the outlands. But, who am I to judge? We will not know the full truth until something is finally confirmed in TLG. v
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby Squeely » August 16th, 2017, 10:01 am

^Well, TLG did somewhat confirm stuff, but it was vague. In "Lions of the Outlands", Rafiki refers to the three cubs as Zira's cubs, not any mention of them being Scar's. You'd think there would have been mention if any of them were related to Scar, since he is a key character in TLG (even post-mortem). And well, like I said, there were hints that the Outsiders are nomadic. Little to no lions in the Pridelands or Outlands? Sure, but we don't know what's beyond the Outlands, and don't know all the locations Zira and her pride have journeyed to. Perhaps there are a couple of prides beyond the Outlands, from which a rouge may leave or Zira may happen upon the pride.

It's vague stuff, though, and open to interpretation.
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Re: What About Nuka?

Postby TTB-Kun » August 23rd, 2017, 8:08 am

Others already said why nuka is not scar's son, i will only add that if Nuka Was Scar's son there weres no reason to hide that, so if that was true it should have just been told, but it's not the case and all the hints in tlk2 and tlg points towards he not being scar's, so case closed
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