who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby SimbasGuard » March 24th, 2015, 11:33 pm

True, but when your back is against the wall (so to Speak) you fight harder. So it is entirely possible that despite being out numbered, the Pridelanders would have wanted it more. Also due to being well feed. They would have had better stamina, and could have fought longer.
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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby AngryCanadian64 » March 28th, 2015, 11:47 pm

Agreed, but taking into consideration, that the outsiders were trained to take down simba as a unit,were more prepared for the battle, and the fact that being smaller would make them quick, and agile, then the well fed bulkier Pridelanders, as well as the fact that the Pridelanders would've been outnumbered. Even if being being backed against a wall (metaphorically) encourages them to fight h harder, they'd still be outnumbered by lionesses who were trained for this type of situation. The Pridelanders would eventually be overwelmed by outsiders. I mean yes, the Pridelanders are healthier from living in better conditions. But, they weren't really prepared, where as the Outsiders had trained there whole lives. The Outsiders are probably more visious, and knew they would have to fight to gain anything. So even if the Pridelanders fight back harder, the Outsiders would have a better chance of going for the kill, while the outnumbered Pridelanders are busy fighting off the other(s). I mean it'd be hard for a Pridelander to watch each opponent, while the lionesses are trying to dig there claws, and or teeth into her.
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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby SimbasGuard » March 29th, 2015, 4:15 am

Granted, but the advantages The Outsiders had in agility would be off-set by the fact that The Pridelanders are bigger and stronger.
As for The Outsiders being more vicious, that is true. However The Pridelander Lionesses have to hunt for a living as well, they are no strangers to going in for the Kill.
Being out numbered in a fight is an unenviable position at best, but if you are stronger than any of your opponents. there is still a chance that you could come out on top or at least fight long enough for help to arrive.
The Pridelanders would not have been guaranteed victory, had Simba and Zira not been a part of the fight, but victory for The Pridelanders would have still been possible. Very hard fought, but still possible.
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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby Giliath » June 23rd, 2015, 7:33 am

(not sure if this is still relevant, but I'd like to state my opinion if that's alright.)

If the battle continued uninterruptedly, with Simba, and Zira sitting out? I would have to agree with Angry Canadian, I think the Pridelanders wouldn't have won. Even though the Pridelanders were bulkier, and better fed, the extra stamina, and strength wouldn't have saved them. The only animals we ever see the Pridelanders fight prior to this battle are Hyena's, which are a lot weaker than lionesses, and the only real training they had was for hunting prey, which was again weaker. They hadn't fought any lionesses, that we've seen anyway, and weren't prepared to fight other lionesses when the Outsiders attacked.

The Outsiders while malnourished, were probably quicker, and faster due to being smaller than the Pridelanders. They focused on training there whole lives for killing the Pridelanders, and so were better prepared for the battle. They probably worked out ways to combat their larger foes. Plus they had bigger motive than the Pridelanders, and having nothing to lose, made them more willing to do anything to win the battle.

This was proven in multiple one on one battles through out the battle we saw. I mean the Outsiders seemed to know what they were doing when they were biting, and slapping the Pridelanders around. By the looks of it the Pridelanders didn't seem to stand a chance in one on one battles. And, as Angry said, if we're supposed to assume that each lioness present is a different one. Than the Pridelanders were heavily outnumbered. I mean we see two Outsiders biting into a Pridelander, and one Pridelander was quickly overwhelmed went an Outsider pulled he tail throwing her off balance, and that same Outsider, and two others jumped on her, and started tearing her apart. The groups that chase Timon, and Pumba, and the group that attacked Simba further prove my theory of the Pridelanders being outnumbered.With Simba, and Zira sitting out, more outsiders would've been free to attack the already occupied Pridelanders. Now as we know the Outsiders work better as unit, this is proven a few times in the movie. So even with more stamina, and strength, due to the Outsiders being smaller, more agile, being better fighters in groups, and already well prepared to kill the Pridelanders before that battle had already started. The Pridelanders dues to being bulkier, and by logic slower, would' quickly be overwhelmed, and torn apart before help would be able to arrive, if it arrived at all. I mean even if the Pridelanders had more strength, and stamina, one lioness would have a hard time fighting off two, or three faster lionesses when they're trying to rip them apart. Especially with how well the Outside, who again trained as a unit, held there own in one on won fights. I seriously doubt the Pridelanders would've stood a chance.
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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby Iberian » June 23rd, 2015, 7:50 pm

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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby KiovuLove » June 25th, 2015, 2:57 am

I feel like they would've destroyed each other. Neither would really come on top. Their hate would end them all. Maybe who's left would just join together on their own, realizing there's no go end to the battle
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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby TLKfan99988 » August 14th, 2016, 10:03 am

(I'm not sure of this thread is dead, or not, but I'd still like to way in here)

I'm a person who bases opinions around what's shown in movies, most likely scenario's, some assumptions, and numbers, logic, and of course personal opinion. I will be using all of this to hopefully prove my point on what side would win. (Reference clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeGQVR-1EGw) Without further a do I will begin.

So lets start with how many lionesses we see in each little quarrel, while doing this I will be summarizing the battle. (This is assuming all distinguishable lionesses are different in each scene.)

The two sides come face to face, Zira taunts Simba, and then the two sides charge at eachother. When we see the two prides collide, we see 6 lionesses from each side duking it out, both Prides seem to be on equal footing (0:30 in the video.), From there we see an outsider sink her teeth into a Pridelanders back (0:31), We then see 2 Outsiders each slap a pridelander (0:33-0:36), we then see a Pridelander flying through the air with an Outsider digging her claws, and fangs into the lionesses gut (0:37), we then see a Pridelander taking down an Outsider while beside her two more lionesses are fighting, the Pridelander gets taken down by the Outsider when you see two more lionesses collide in the air, the Outsider ends up sinking her teeth into the Pridelander, and lands on top of her. You then see the Outsider that was taken down earlier, slap the Pridelander when she stops to let out a roar. We then see an Outsider hit the ground with a paw on her (0:39-0:41). The total of lionesses so far is even at 14 on both sides, each fight was one on one, and the Pridelanders seemed to be losing almost everytime. Then we see Kiara, and Kovu watching from across the river (not gonna count those lionesses, because I can't tell who's on what side there). We then see a Pridelander who looks like she's about to get eaten by two Outsiders (I assume that's what's happening because instead of trying to take her down, or going fr something vital they're just sinking their teeth into her back, and chest.) (0:50). Then we see an Outsider take down a Pridelander by pulling on her tail, when the Outsider finally lets go the, the lionesses gets jumped on, and torn apart (and, possibly eaten) by that same Outsider, and two others, and then we see am Outsider, and Pridelander roll by) (0:51-0:52)) Bringing the total number of Pridelanders too 17, and the Outsider too a total of 20 lionesses. We then see Timon, and Pumba get chased, and cornered by 5 more Outsiders, and then we see simba trying to fight off twelve of them, and then Zira, and two more Outsiders jump off of the rock Zira was coaching her pride on. We then see fur more lionesses stop fighting When Zira slaps Simba (2:10-2:14). Which brings the total of the Pridelanders to a total of 21, and the Outsider t a total of 43 lionesses.

So not only did the Outsiders outnumber the Pridelanders 2-1, but they clearly showed that despite being malnourished, they trained hard enough to over come their major weakness, and in doing so proved to be too strong for the Pridelanders to handle. Had Simba, and Zira sat out, and the battle gone on without interference the Outsiders would've come out on top. Why? Because the Outsiders had trained for that moment, figuring out ways to over come there weaknesses, and kill their larger foes. They were ready for a fight against other lionesses. Where as the Pridelanders weren't ready, the strongest thing they'd fought up to that were hyena's, who are a lot weaker than lionesses. Naturally they'd be at a huge disadvantage, and had the two leaders sat out there would've been more Pridelanders in two on one situations, and again the Pridelanders were losing in one on one fights so it wouldn't have ended well for them. The Outsiders had trained, and honed their skills to take down the Pridelanders. And, the whole the "Pridelanders are bigger, so they're stronger" argument has flaws in it. Being larger, and stronger doesn't automatically mean a better fighter, size, and strength mean nothing if you din't have skills in fighting (This is coming from a pacifist who knows how to take down people twice his size if he had to.). The Outsiders trained hard for years honing their skills, where as the Pridelanders became lazy, and only trained to hunt animals weaker than themselves. The Pridelanders were larger, but probably didn't have as much skill as the Outsiders, so the size of the Pridelanders would've made them slower, and would've probably been another cause of there down fall.

Anyway, those are my two cents on the matter so agree, disagree cool, I'm happy you have your own opinion, and even if you disagree great, but please respect my opinion, and I will respect yours. But, that doesn't mean don't argue my claims, I love a good debate.
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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby Amur_Tiger » August 15th, 2016, 12:27 am

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the particular numbers shown as in many cases this will be used to fill out a shot. Given that there's no reference ( by the characters ) to such a large disparity in numbers I'm not sure it's credible to imagine such a huge difference, particularly when we almost always see more or less even numbers when they're actually fighting. If the outlanders have twice the numbers then they have a bad habit of not showing up for the big brawls or the wide shots. Also from a realistic perspective the idea of the outlands supporting such a large pride is pretty fanciful, you need a lot of meat to keep that many lionesses going and the portrayal of the outlands doesn't suggest that meat is easy to come by.

Secondly there's the question of skill, which is a fair bit more complicated then it might seem. Certainly the outlanders have done a fair bit more training for the specific task of fighting the pridelanders. However this requires you also answer what the pridelanders are doing with their time, hunting down food primarily with the occasional spar because lions tend to do that sort of thing naturally. This also impacts the outlanders as well as hunting will have to be their primary activity, and if anything they'll have to spend more time doing it due to the marginal territory. Also weighing in, once again due to territory, is the nature of the prey involved, better territory means larger more challenging prey to wrestle to the ground breeds larger stronger lions.

Link This is an extreme account of this effect where lions are trapped on an island with more or less just cape buffalo to hunt down, there's a documentary film about it someplace as well.

From a realistic perspective the pridelanders likely should have won, from the movie perspective things get a fair bit more murky.
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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby Squeely » August 18th, 2016, 12:14 pm

43 and 21 feel like over-estimations. The numbers appear far lower than that throughout most of the film (there appear to be roughly 8 or so lionesses, not counting Zira or Vitani, in "My Lullaby"), and while the amount of lionesses is certainly inconsistent from shot to shot, I think an estimate of 8-12 lionesses per pride would be more accurate. Especially since there are only 15 lionesses in the final group shot. We can maybe write a few off - maybe a few are off hunting, maybe some are injured and/or old, so they may not appear there - but that would only excuse a handful, not nearly 50. I think TLKfan99988 counted up every time they saw a lioness, but didn't consider that the same lioness would probably appear in a few different shots.

It has certainly always seemed to me that the Pridelanders and Outsiders are roughly even in number, with Outsiders possibly having a couple extra lionesses on their side (as evidenced by the fact that two Outsiders were taking on one Pridelander). Taking that, and the fact that they probably had a lot of training under their metaphorical belts, I have to give the slight advantage to the Outsiders. Though the battle likely would have ended up an ugly stalemate more than anything.
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Re: who would have won: pridelanders vs outlanders

Postby SimbasGuard » September 5th, 2016, 6:17 am

Another thing we know is that Nala is a very capable fighter, and even though they have Simba to protect them. It seems unlikely that The Pridelander Lionesses would be completely unprepared for an attack by the outsiders. They are after all Simba's army as well. I know it is total speculation on my part, but I doubt Nala would have done nothing to ensure that her Lionesses were ready should Simba need them to fight at his side. Another thing is while the outsiders had nothing too loose and would fight with all they had. The Pridelanders had everything to loose, I am quite sure that would have made The Pridelanders fight just as fiercely as The Outsiders.
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