Simba's relationship with Timon and Pumbaa.

[Shadowfax]

I don't really like this film, but whilst I was pacing round the room last night trying to get my daughter to sleep at 3am. .. I had a random thought. XD

Simba is pretty harsh on Timon and Pumbaa in this movie O.o Like... In the first movie he treats them more as brothers/uncles and has some sort of respect for them (Having raised him I guess he should have...) But in SP he literally treats them like slaves and I don't recall him having any "nice' scenes with them. All he seems to do is tell them to do this and do that.

Even in tlk 1 1/2 he seems to have a close relationship with them and in SP.. They pretty much become like his slaves... surely he'd have a bit more respect for his adopted 'parents'.

Why do you think that is? Power gone to his head maybe? The way he was raised? Thoughts?

[Hatari05]

I never really saw it as him treating Timon and Pumba bad not really anyway he never yelled at them or even outright command them he asked them nicely to keep his daughter safe it never came off as an order to me and while they're bickering in the cave Simba seems almost amused by it as if saying yep that's Timon and Pumba He also seems amused by their whole there's a guy but not a lion explanation. Simba's whole expression screams they are so talking about me and his playful smile all but sells it. So no I don't see it that way it's more Simba's more mature and can't afford to deal with their more immature antics but he never came off as mean to them at least I didn't think he did.

[Ninaroja]

ZTBH I see what you mean: in movie one they seemed a lot more like friends/parental figures to Simba whereas in TLK2 they seemed to have been reduced to extensions of Zazu in a way. TBH I think this was because the film makers didn't quite know what to do with them :T&P don't seem to have such a big role in the second film if you ask me...

[Carl]

[quote="Ninaroja"]T&P don't seem to have such a big role in the second film if you ask me...[/quote]
Same, I feel like a lot of their screen time should have gone to Nala, instead.

That said, I do see a change in his behavior towards them, but Simba acts differently towards everyone in SP. He is usually seen telling them to go watch Kiara and not really being nice to them, but I don't think he was mean either. I think he treated them as subjects, yes, but at the same time, as overprotective as he was, he had to have respected and trusted them more than the lionesses and Zazu, or he wouldn't have trusted them to take care of his daughter.

[DGFone]

The first movie showed us how Timon and Pumbaa took Simba in as their own, and that's why we see that playful as well as parent-son relationship.

In SP, the duo are only there to be pure comic relief, and other than that, they are used as a plot device to allow Kiara get away from resections placed upon her by Simba and Nala. In other words, we only see them failing at a job that Simba trusted them with, and therefor, we don't see the same relationship in the first movie.

Although as Hatari05 mentioned, the scene where Timon and Pumbaa try to explain Kiara's disappearance from Pride Rock, despite it being a tense situation, you can still tell that he can feel some amusement, no doubt reminiscent of when he was growing up with them.

[TheLionPrince]

While I agree their main role was failing to protect Kiara, you also may be forgetting that Timon and Pumbaa's bird chasing sequence did start the building blocks of Kiara and Kovu's relationship. It even got Kovu to loosen up, and enjoy the pleasures of life in the Pride Lands. Like everyone else said, Simba was never directly shouting or expressed anger to them. He may have shouted "Move now!", but that was a command than an expression of personal anger to them.

Even another scene with Simba, Timon, and Pumbaa was when Pumbaa carried Simba, who was injured and exhausted from the ambush. Just now, I noticed it was an exact parallel to the first movie when Pumbaa carried Simba's body to safety after the buzzards tried to eat him. Would Timon and Pumbaa have acted again as "Good Samaritans" if Simba was a total jerk to them?

And Shadowfax, you are comparing apples and oranges in terms of their relationship in The Lion King 1½ to that in Simba's Pride. 1½ was the same relationship as that in the first film, where Simba was more laid-back and neglecting his responsibilities. In Simba's Pride, he has to take the role as king, which is not particularly easy in terms of decision making and placing your trust in others.

[Shadowfax]

Some interesting thoughts here. Glad I am not the only one who thinks he can be a bit of a douche towards them. But I guess as people have said, with his responsibilities as king, it does put more pressure on him hence why his attitude may have changed a bit towards his former foster parents.

[Remorazz]

Admittedly they had less of a friendly or close relationship in the second movie than they did in the first. I wouldn't quite go to calling them slaves, because that conjures images of Simba cracking a whip on the backs of Timon and Pumbaa as they build him a monument to his greatness or something.

[Shawry111]

^ Haha, that's what I thought. I never really saw them as being treated badly. Simba as an anxious Lion as we all know so he was under a lot of stress therefore I don't think he intentionally meant to make it sound bad. But I also think that more screen time should have gone to Nala, or even Sarabi/ the mothers...

[Hatari05]

I agree with you on both accounts but as I have said when you are dealing with an eighty minute run time there is only so much you can do. Think about this for a moment in the first movie Rafiki had a few scenes but only his big one with Simba was important, Sarabi only had one or two scenes as well.

I like Nala and would like to see more of her but her screentime didn't really decrease actually not as an adult anyway and let's be completely honest here Nala cub and Nala adult may as well of been different characters. So going by adult Nala she had about as much to do naturally I would've liked more but her role didn't decrease too much.