Did Zira know how Scar became king?

[ValiantVitani]

I was thinking about this, and while, obviously, she would know that he took over when Mufasa died, did she know Scar was responsible for that? Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I don't recall Zira ever saying anything at all about what Scar did as king, or how he became king. Now, this could be because she didn't want to let her kids, and especially Kovu, know about the true nature of the lion they were fighting to avenge. It would probably be problematic if they knew the truth of the story. However, I was thinking about a different possibility.

What if Zira legitimately did not know that Scar was responsible for Mufasa's death or Simba's flight? If she simply believed Scar's story that Mufasa died trying to save Simba, her vendetta against Simba makes a lot more sense. If she truly believed that Scar was the rightful king and had taken the throne legitimately in the aftermath of tragedy, it is completely understandable why she would hate Simba so; if this version of events were true, then it would be Simba who killed (indirectly) the legitimate king and deposed him. Not to mention, Simba fleeing in the aftermath of the death and then returning later would make it seem likely that he was in some way responsible from an in-world perspective. And it would explain why she was so defiant and zealous even after the rest of her group switched sides; she would legitimately believe her cause was just and that the other side was evil, choosing to die instead of joining them makes sense in that case.

What do you think, is Zira simply being unaware of the full story behind Scar's rise to power a plausible explanation for her behavior and devotion to Scar even after his death?

[The Resilient One]

I'd like to believe that Zira truly believed Scar to be as high and mighty as she perceived him to be. Perhaps she was away in a hunting party with a group of other lionesses when Simba confronted Scar, and thus didn't overhear his confession. Or, she could have known the truth all along, yet just chose to continue blindly follow him out of some sort of twisted admiration.

[TheBlackCatCrossing]

Zira is like a Manson girl.

[FriendlyHyena]

[quote="ValiantVitani"]I was thinking about this, and while, obviously, she would know that he took over when Mufasa died, did she know Scar was responsible for that? Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but I don't recall Zira ever saying anything at all about what Scar did as king, or how he became king. Now, this could be because she didn't want to let her kids, and especially Kovu, know about the true nature of the lion they were fighting to avenge. It would probably be problematic if they knew the truth of the story. However, I was thinking about a different possibility.

What if Zira legitimately did not know that Scar was responsible for Mufasa's death or Simba's flight? If she simply believed Scar's story that Mufasa died trying to save Simba, her vendetta against Simba makes a lot more sense. If she truly believed that Scar was the rightful king and had taken the throne legitimately in the aftermath of tragedy, it is completely understandable why she would hate Simba so; if this version of events were true, then it would be Simba who killed (indirectly) the legitimate king and deposed him. Not to mention, Simba fleeing in the aftermath of the death and then returning later would make it seem likely that he was in some way responsible from an in-world perspective. And it would explain why she was so defiant and zealous even after the rest of her group switched sides; she would legitimately believe her cause was just and that the other side was evil, choosing to die instead of joining them makes sense in that case.

What do you think, is Zira simply being unaware of the full story behind Scar's rise to power a plausible explanation for her behavior and devotion to Scar even after his death?[/quote]

I'd wondered that too. I even though, if all she'd known was that Scar was the legit king and Simba, who was supposed to be dead, comes back, confesses to being responsible the death of Mufasa, then leaps at Scar and makes him confess to being responsible for Mufasa's death, then later throws Scar presumably to his death (I'm not sure she knew that it was really the hyenas that killed Scar), and then Simba takes over and kicks her and her cubs out, then I can see why she's so angry and vindictive against Simba.

However, Zira's comment about "Your soul is as black as Scar's" to Kovu or something please her remark about Kovu having a cunning and scheming mind just like Scar may hint that she DID in fact know the truth about Scar, but perhaps didn't care because he was kind to her (or she thought he was.)

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="FriendlyHyena"]Zira's comment about "Your soul is as black as Scar's" to Kovu or something please her remark about Kovu having a cunning and scheming mind just like Scar may hint that she DID in fact know the truth about Scar[/quote]

I'm inclined to think that Zira did indeed know the truth about Scar for the reasons FriendlyHyena mentioned. She clearly found that to be an attractive trait. Which basically tells you that Zira was already of a psychotic mindset before she met Scar. There is also the fact that in "The Lion Guard" Zira told Kion:

[quote="Zira"] Scar and I were close very close[/quote]

I think Scar may have told Zira things he had never told anyone else.

[Anonymousething]

Not to mention the "So you found yourself somebody who'd chase Simba up a tree" line from Nuka during the "My Lullaby" song... How would he know about that?

I always imagined a backstory involving her joining the Pridelands during Scar's reign and being so grateful to him (possibly due to him not killing Nuka) that she ignored all the bad deeds he did. That aside, knowing Scar he could have toned down what he did or justified it somehow. Either way, it seems she almost certainly knew .

[SimbasGuard]

[quote="Anonymousething"]Not to mention the "So you found yourself somebody who'd chase Simba up a tree" line from Nuka during the "My Lullaby" song... How would he know about that? [/quote]

I have seen this movie more times than I can count and I never picked up on that.

[Anonymousething]

[quote="SimbasGuard"][quote="Anonymousething"]Not to mention the "So you found yourself somebody who'd chase Simba up a tree" line from Nuka during the "My Lullaby" song... How would he know about that? [/quote]

I have seen this movie more times than I can count and I never picked up on that. [/quote]
Haha, well I just always thought that line was a little weird. How would Nuka know?! (I guess Zira /Scar told him, but why would Scar tell her / him??) Moreover, "chasing Simba up a tree" wasn't even Scar's plan! Why would that be an integral part of his story? I fail to see why he would mention it at all... UNLESS, he told Zira / others Simba fell to his death from it, then was trampled by the wildebeest. Seeing as he wasn't dead in the end though, it still would have been a terrible plan.

Sorry, that was a little off topic, but this could be evidence that Scar DID tell Zira, whether the truth or an embellishment is another matter.

Thank you for the Pride Points!!

[Elton John]

i think that chasing simba up a tree bit makes more sense if you look at it from a songwriters point of view... it rhymes well enough, disney isn’t paying you as much as someone like howard ashman or tim rice nor are you as good as them at songwriting. it rhymes well with what comes next and to be blunt the songwriters for the direct to video sequels were not nearly as good as the songwriters for the theatrical movies.

Sometimes the songwriters for the dtv sequels could write a decent song that flows well, fits well thematically, is logical, entertaining, etc. but not most of the time.

someone like howard ashman was a lyrical genius who died way too early

[TheLionPrince]

[quote="Anonymousething"]Not to mention the "So you found yourself somebody who'd chase Simba up a tree" line from Nuka during the "My Lullaby" song... How would he know about that?

[/quote]

I don't think there's a deeper meaning in that lyric. Nuka was probably being sarcastic about Kovu being a viable challenger to Simba.